Bus Connects Observations – Some points people are making…

The following is a list of observations (food for thought) from different people who logged them on the google form I shared.
Please note, people should make their own submissions to An Bord Pleanála, but these points may help some people to formulate their own submissions.
These comments are presented here as they appeared on the Google Form and they have not been edited by me.

This is not intended to be an exhaustive list of points that can and should be raised with An Bord Pleanála but it is a starting point for anyone who would benefit from seeing other peoples thought. It is recommended that you read these points and think about anything missing. Include that in your own submission.
If you are still unsure of how to proceed, please send me an email to Ahayes@Cllrs.Sdublincoco.ie

The deadline for submission of observations on the “Lucan To City Centre Bus Corridor Scheme” is Wednesday 11th January at 5.30pm

  • “With no filter light left coming out of the oval, traffic will be at a dangerous level during school time with children crossing constantly at the proposed crossing and then traffic turning into the road will be detriment to children’s safety.
    Furthermore, at present drivers ignore that yellow box even with a light out so residents of that estate will be unable to leave the estate and sitting in traffic. They will no longer have a priority to leave their estate.
  • The proposal to move the bus stop is problematic and will make the majority of our elderly residents walk more.
    The restructure of the 26 bus route to the 80 is to only facilitate the new apartments and do not have the interests of the community “
  • “Taking the bus into the village is pointless and adding extra time and unecessary construction.
    Removing the left slip road at the end of Kenneslsfort Rd onto N4 will cause hugh tailbacks on an already congested Rd. I can hardly get out of my own driveway on Kennelsfort it is so busy.”
  • No left turn from bus lane from N4 into oval could be dangerous, to turn left we would need to stop in second lane while buses, taxi and others use the bus lane, only 1 lane would be available to continue going straight, would be especially dangerous at peak times, should be left as it is.
  • The removal of filter lights will cause even more congestion on an already backed up kennelsfort road. Traffic is at a standstill for many parts of the day.
  • “Loss of left turn entering the Oval from city centre will push traffic to Kennelsfort Road and surrounding area causing even more congestion then there is now. This will affect most of Palmerstown as it will force drivers to basically rat run through the whole area to get to schools, shops and Doctors surgery as well as private homes.
  • Removal of the bus stop from the Drive will isolate elderly and disabled as the walk from the next stop is just too far for a lot of people. The walk to the next bus stop is also more dangerous for all but especially for schoolchildren because it forces them to cross roads they wouldn’t have to cross if the stop is left where it is now.
  • Rerouting of the 26 through the Village will also isolate elderly people as they’d have to walk to the Village to get the 26 to the Post Office, SuperValu etc. which is impossible for a lot. Schoolchildren will be forced to cross the very busy N4 both to and from the newly proposed bus stops. Also it has not been shown there is sufficient demand from residents for this rerouting of the 26. “
  • Where will people park
  • “*There’s a major safety issue at the oval with those changes from both a driver and pedestrian point of view. Children having to cross the oval to get to the new proposed lights is concerning.
  • *safety issue with the new proposed left turn into the oval which is no longer filtered for cars so they have to cross in between busses passing, meanwhile holding up traffic behind them.
  • *severe disruption to the village as a result of all traffic from the new apartments and existing houses having to travel down the old Lucan Road to the applegreen turn as the existing left turn at the kennelsfort/footbridge will no longer be allowed.
  • *the 26 has been running successfully for years. Why do you need to divert the route through the village when nobody has asked for that change. By doing it you are restricting access for many bus users who walk to the main road to have access to different busses.
  • *the cycle lane from kennelsfort Road to the Lucan cycle lane has no connection.
  • *so many people use the 18 bus to get to work, school, hospital appointments. To get rid of it is scandalous. That kids and the users from Stewarts would have to get two or three buses to get to crumlin/drimnagh etc is just not on and a bit heartbreaking.
  • New right turn into the Village at Applegreen for Buses and all the ancillary road changes to facilitate it is not feasible due to size of the access road, wasteful of public money and is not in the public interest of the whole community. Terry Shaw has a historic legal access for his heavy vehicles and plant into his own yard which opens onto this road and will be unable to drive his machinery into and out of his premises if this NRA plan proceeds. Access to Palmerstown village is already available at Palmerstown footbridge so why change it.
  • A pedestrian crossing at the footbridge will lead to loss of life and injuries as this junction is notorious for vehicles breaking the lights here in every direction. The footbridge already fulfils that function nut safely. There is no Community agreement or desire to have our Village and traffic environment totally upended and destroyed and for our ageing community to be discriminated against and discommoded out of using our cars to and safely access essential services safely inside and around Palmerstown village. This scheme is not essential, will cost far too much and does not take the living human experience into consideration or show any care for People and how they ĺive and have lived their lives in Palmerstown with ease and in safety for decades.
  • 1 There is no demand for a bus route through the historic heritage village. No rationale has been put forward for same.
  1. Cost of works at Oval junction to facilitate same could be better spent elsewhere
  2. Loss of Palmerstown Drive bus stop will leave a sizeable proportion of ‘old Palmerstown’ which contains an older population with severely reduced bus access and/or longer walk times.
  3. The entire works listed for/in Palmerstown will result in significant, possibly severe, congestion in the village, around the Oval and the adjacent roads including around the primary schools, and on Kennelsfort road. It does not appear that traffic counts were undertaken before developing proposals to remove left turns and left slips at junctions. The removal will have considerable impact on access to and from the R148.
  4. The congestion will lead to air quality issues and safety issues around the childcare facility and schools at the Oval, along with general quality of life issues for residents.
  5. The R148 splits Palmerstown but the plans will further divide a town and community. The time to get from the Oval to the church, supermarket, park, swimming pool, vets, doctors, or vice versa from Riversdale, Hollyville, Village to the shops, post office, hairdressers, etc will be increased significantly.
  6. All traffic from new appartment development, Riversdale, Hollyville, Watertown, Robin Villas, Village, etc. including users of the above mentioned facilities that wish to head to Oval or city direction will have to pass through the historic village and exit at Applegreen / Shaws. The above points on congestion, air quality, environmental impact, etc. apply.
  7. The proposed plant storage / works area at the green space at top of Palmerstown Drive/Oval will be a health and safety risk to the primary school students for the 2 year duration.
  8. The village and houses therein are a protected conservation area. The routing of an unwanted bus through this short section, along with all the associated works particularly the bus shelters outside Woodfarm Cottages and the potential introduction of bollards and other street furniture will have a considerable visual impact on the historic village area.
  9. The routing of the 26/80 bus route via the village will mean the entire of ‘old’ Palmerstown will have to walk to the village to get access to this route. In line with point 3 above this moves bus access further away from a significant number of residents in Palmerstown.
  10. The age of the population (elderly / young families) does not appear to have been taken into account.
  11. If the unwanted and unnecessary 26/80 route must go through the village it should exit to Chapelizod via the reopening of the old road at the back of the Applegreen, rather than exit at Shaws/Applegreen onto the R148 and then immediately back on to the old road to Chapelizod.
  12. The proposed site compound (marked A3800 on map) near the footbridge is home to a considerable amount of urban wildlife.”
    “1. In relation to the green area on the main road at the southside between the Oval and Kennelsfort Road, this green area is the only, very modest buffer between the dwellings and the main road.
  13. This is the only very modest measure in place to ameliorate the extremely high level of noise that impacts on the dwellings there.
  14. Please note that the commitment by the authorities in 1990 or thereabouts to provide a sound wall there was never delivered. The ‘compensation’ provided was the current green area. And now this is under threat.
  15. I wish to highlight this as a very serious health and safety threat. Please reference the current commentary in the Dublin North area where there is a high level of threat to health and safety due to noise levels.
  16. Already on this main road, the levels of noise and light are dangerous and intolerable. So far, there has been no provision to reduce this impact.
  17. Regarding the main road in general, is there any other village in Ireland that does not have any traffic calming measures in place where a road goes right through the middle? The speed and the noise levels going through the village of Palmerstown are intolerable.
  18. Finally I wish to highlight please, that the main road through Palmerstown is not a “bypass”. The road cuts through the heart ands sunders the village of Palmerstown.”
  19. “It will be possible to enter and exit at the Oval. However, the westbound road will have 4 lanes. Two lanes as currently exists and a bus lane either side. The bus lane on the northern side is for turning in to the village at Shaws and the bus lane on the south (Oval side) is straight on to lucan etc.
  20. When turning left in to the Oval you will have to do so from one of the two main traffic lanes as the bus lane has no filter left for cars.
  21. It is somewhat confusing and I think unsafe. All of these issues stem from wanting to run a busnin and out at Shaws. It is unnecessary. Leave that out of the plans and there is far less disruption.”
  22. The current South Dublin Development Plan states: “SM3 Objective 17: To work with the NTA and other state agencies to facilitate the delivery of the Kennelsfort Road-R148 grade separated junction or an equivalent solution to maximise the efficacy of the BusConnects Project.” There is no reference to this in the proposal and the suggested changes to the junction do not address the fundamental problems, will cause further congestion (for Buses on Kennelsfort Road and on the R148 )with the resultant increase in air and noise pollution.
  23. There is no want or need from the community of Palmerstown to have the bus routed through the village. No evidence provided by the NTA for the need for a bus route through Palmerstown village.
  1. Oval Junction & Red Cow Cottages
    2.1 Removal of slip road from N4 to Oval – Will cause delays of traffic on N4 as cars will need to wait for buses to go pass before turning left, this is extremely dangerous and will lead to accidents at this junction. Dangerous/Additional road congestion and environmental impact.
    2.2 26 Bus will need to cross 2 lanes of traffic to turn right into Palmerstown village – This will again add to traffic exiting from town on the N4 and also back up the bus lane. Safety concerns with having a bus crossing two lanes of busy traffic
    2.3 Removal of the bus stop at the drive – this is the only stop on the N4 which services the west side of Palmerstown and is extremely well used. This contravenes the requirement to have a bus stop within 400m of your home.
    2.4 There is no clarity in the plan of what is happening to the left filter light from the Oval to the N4. Additional traffic congestion and environmental impact.
    2.5 There are 2 large primary schools at the Oval which need to be serviced there needs to be adequate access in and out of the Oval Junction – traffic will be backed up and will be dangerous for children crossing the road in the vicinity
    2.6 The green space beside the entrance to the drive is very close to two large primary schools and should not be used for plant storage.
  2. Footbridge to Oval Proposal
    3.1 The N4 is a major artery to and from Dublin the addition of a new pedestrian/cycling crossing should not be at road level, there should be a second bridge for cyclists. Increased traffic congestion and environmental impact
    3.2 There is no clarity in the plan of what is happening to the left filter light from Kennelsfort Road Upper to the N4. Increased traffic congestion and environmental impact
    3.2 Old Lucan Road – Proposed new bus stops are parallel to each other, should buses be servicing both stops at the same time there does not appear to be sufficient space for cars to pass. There is no want or desire to have the bus routed through this part of the village. Safety concern/environmental impact and traffic congestion.
    3.3 Woodfarm and Redcow cottages are an area of architectural conservation and as such there should not be a bus shelter outside of them.
    3.4 Revised parking outside Redcow cottages from parallel to straight will create more spaces but will make it more difficult for the elderly residents of this area to access their cars.
    4 N4/M50 Interchange
    4.1 Eastbound traffic from Lucan to Palmerstown over the M50 junction will be reduced to single lane traffic. As a main artery to Dublin it makes no sense to facilitate a bus lane for a few hundred meters, this is dangerous and will lead to accidents and further congestion of traffic and an already busy junction.
    4.2 West bound traffic from Palmerstown to Lucan over the M50 junction is being reduced to a single lane of traffic. As a main artery from Dublin it makes no sense to facilitate a bus lane for a few hundred meters, this is dangerous and will lead to accidents and further congestion of traffic and an already busy junction.

    The people who have planned the changes obviously heve no clue as to how the current bus operations in Palmerstown village work. The current service is adequate to meet demand and rarely is affected by traffic delays. The proposals are a retrograde step that will cost a fortune to implement. If it’s not broken, why try to fix it?
  3. Dozens of secondary school kids travel from the Chapelizod area to Lucan daily. Previously, this was possible using a single bus. Changes for Bus Connects have already changed that to mean they now need 2 buses, with just a single daytime bus (the 26) from Chapelizod connecting to the C-spine buses. Now their lives will be made more difficult with the proposed changes to Palmerstown as the 26 (or 80 as it will be renamed) will no longer stop on the N4 near the Circle K. Kids will have to walk from Palmerstown village back out to the N4, cross the N4 and go to a different stop. This will add considerable time to their journey, and some of the kids are as young as 13 so their parents won’t be comfortable with this. The result will be more people resorting to driving their kids to school, further increasing car use when the whole idea with bus service improvements is to reduce car use.
  4. There is no bus stop connecting 26 ( via Chapelizod) and the main C route towards Lucan and beyond. Chapelizod will be completely cut off from local areas. This will hugely impact children going to Lucan Leixlip and Celbridge for school. It also prevents elderly people from using the shops/ doctors/ credit union in palmerstown. The 26 route was “sold” as a connecting route to other bus services but this plan will remove that option for the community
  5. School children living in chapelizod need to be able to connect to spine buses before palmerstown oval to get to schools. This proposal seems to remove that link and instead make them cross over a very busy dual carriageway. Bizarre planning. System is already shambolic…lets make it worse and cut Chapelizod off completely from our kids schools!!
  6. When Chapelizod residents lost 6 bus routes serving Lucan and North Kildare when Bus Connects was launched, we were fobbed off with assurances that we could just connect up with the C spine in Palmerstown. This proposal means that the 26 bus does not connect with the C route anymore, making that commitment worthless. There are no secondary schools in Chapelizod so most children are attending school in Lucan. Bus “Connects” has doubled the journey time for these children already and this will make it worse. The minimum we require is the retention of a bus stop keeping the connection to the C route.
  7. You have not only taken 10 bus from the Chapelizod-Lucan direct route, you are now making it more difficult to access this route. It is obvious that the planners are not from the Chapelizod area. There will be hundreds more people populating Chapelizod in the future with two large developments coming to completion- the buses are already overloaded and that is when they actually come. This is a very frustrating decision.
  8. This is an inadequate service for kids trying to go to school in Lucan from chapelizod encouraging more parents to travel by car
  9. Bus connects when introduced totally disconnected Chapelizod from surrounding area. We previously had buses pass through that went to palmerstown, lucan, leixlip, celbridge, maynooth and kilkock. Since November 2021 when introduced we have 1 unreliable bus route that goes from city centre to liffey valley shopping centre. Many people used the previous routes to get to schools, college, employment. Since the introduction of stage 1 of bus connects people have had to get 2 if not 3 buses to connect to these areas. A total pain and adding to journey time and inconvenience especially given how unreliable the service is. Under this new plan the existing 26 route does not even link up with the other C buses on this spine. A further inconvenience . It is shocking and so disappointing for residents and users of the chapelizod area to be further isolated. This area is under further residential development which will increase the population. I urge full consideration to be given not to further isolste this area. It eould appear that Chapelizod is collateral damage innyhis plan. In the original plan access was to be created to the bus routes on the bypass which has not happened. Really poor planning.
  10. Concern for children to access reliable and safe public transport to attend schools from Chapelizod to Lucan to change routes again further link buses and time involved for travelling which is too long given the close proximity. Chapelizod village population is being increased yet services have become poorer in last 2 years and very worried for use in the coming years.
  11. Retain the bus stop between Chapelizod and Applegreen (direction towards the m50). Chapelizod has already lost a direct bus to Lucan/Maynooth, losing this stop makes it even more complicated for students to make their way to secondary school – they now need two buses, by removing the bus stop you are adding a long walk between the connecting buses.

4 thoughts on “Bus Connects Observations – Some points people are making…”

  1. The bike lane on the old Lucan road and no parking is mad what happens when there is a funeral where will people park they already park at Aldi and riverside drive but what about the cars that park on the road

  2. Darina O Connor

    Removal of all on street parking on the northern side of the old Lucan Road for a 2 lane cycleway, side by side lanes, will result in the lost of all free on street car spaces. This includes outside of the Church. What happens when funerals, confirmations and communions take place. Does the NTA and Bus Connect really think that the elderly or families with young children will arrive to these functions on bikes or by bus?

    Changing the pay and display parking at Woodfarm and Red Cow Cottages is a potential dangerous suggestions. 40ft trucks existing Mill Lane just about make the turn with the current arrangement. Adding in a bus route here will be another hazard for anyone parking in this type of parking bay.
    Putting a pathway to the new bus stop/shelter behind Shaws, will expose vulnerable path users to commercial vehicle movement over the path.
    If a commercial vehicle is over the path at Shaws waiting for the gates to open and a bus comes in….potential for a collision. If a pedestrian decides to walk around the vehicle….pedestrian vs bus!
    No sweep path analysis given to see if a bus could make the left turn onto the old Lucan Road at Shaws.
    The entire work proposed the the Oval junction has huge safety concerns for all age groups.
    The R148 is a major road to Dublin from the west which according to a TII report back in 2015 carries over 84k cars a day. Doing major uncalled work at the Oval/Shaws will cause total grid lock during and after construction.
    Save Palmerstown Village Heritage for future generations to enjoy.

  3. Vincent Doorley

    Can only see a lot more traffic entering the housing estate to use it as a traffic avoidance area
    (Rat run). Completely agree this has huge implications with regards to safety around our national schools. The NTA has no expertise with regards to traffic management, and by all accounts has not consulted the SDCC with regards to already existing traffic issues in the area.

  4. This is a joke we will have no privacy at all and it’s a joke to try get out of the oval as it is at the minute with the school collections and drop off

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